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« Unbelievable! | Main | Can We Move On To Real Issues, Now? »

September 24, 2006

Comments

I was once a reader of NLS, despite being a Republican. He could occassionaly be fair and there was a good exchange of ideas.

Not any more. He's just gone to s**t.

I'm sorry to say I agree with you Chris, and am cutting back on my blog reading and exchanges of opinions because of it.

Martinsburg is in West Virginia. I think you meant Martinsville.

MC, you can't turn off political discussions when your candidate is the victim of sophomoric attacks. You're better off just not sinking to that level. Focus on the policies and not the politics. Criticize Webb's Iraq solution, not his writings about women in the military. It'll probably pack a more powerful punch in the end.

The Salon article -- which has some indicia of reliablility -- describes more than just a youthful prank or an occassional "n word": it contains a first person account that Allen, as UVA quarterback, lead some of his team-mates into an act of severe racially motivated cruelty.

It suggests that for all of Allen's excuses about being naive about the symbolism of the rope, the confederate battle flag and all, he was fairly informed: how many college quarterbacks do you think knew the name of the leader of United Klans of America?

As THE big man on campus at UVa at that time, he had the responsibility to lead in the right direction.

The story is troublingly consistent with some of the other incidents that have been reported from Allen's younger days.

Alleged Juvenile misconduct bears a certain presumption of irrelevance until proven otherwise even in presidential politics: but this account, if true, would mean that alot of the rationalizations we have been hearing from the Allen campaign have been hollow: the Salon report suggests a kind of Jekyl and Hyde aspect of Allen that would be relevant in the career of any major office holder.

No doubt the Allen camp is discussing how to respond now, before all this breaks out in the MSM. It is fair that he be given this opportunity to consider his response before the storm. I don't think that we all can just assume that the account is true just because it is from a physician and former team-mate, and confirmed by some accounts: but if true, we cannot minimize it.


Panda

I'm with you on this, MC. I didn't like the crap between Miller and Webb, and I don't like this stuff either. I haven't posted the "Webb is sexist" stuff on my blog.

Webb should be rejected because he has no plan, and his philosophy (such as we can ascertain it) is antithetical to success for Virginia or our country. Not because of something he did or didn't do 30 years ago.

And Allen should win because he has a proven record of service to Virginia and our Country as Governor and Senator, because his philosophy is the right philosophy for governance, and his record shows a sound grasp of issues and of being on the right side of them. Not because he was rude to a Webb staffer, or his mother hid her Jewish heritage, or someone is lying about something from college.

Panda, you are just continuing the baseless attacks. In the internet era, it's too easy to find SOMEONE willing to lie about the past.

You don't think the republicans could find SOMEONE to anonymously claim Webb used the n-word, or some other offensive reference to minorities? That some woman might not accuse him of abuse, or, well, anything else you could think to smear someone with?

Shelton has been proven to have lied about his nickname, the ONE charge he made for which we could have obtained proof. His claim about the n-word is countered by every other person willing to go public from that time with Allen. His claim about why Allen attended college is at odds with the record, and with statements from others who knew Allen better than Shelton.

That leaves the deer incident -- which has NO other witnesses. There is no police report, no record of anybody finding a head. Only Shelton's word. The only witness just coincidentally died a few months before Shelton came forward.

Shelton wants us to believe that not only did he have no problem with Allen getting elected Governor or Senator as a racist who committed a hate crime, but now is coming forward.

And we have to believe that half the UVA team was racist, and are lying to hide it.

And we have to believe that a man who just died was also a racist who committed a hate crime and took it to his grave.

We can't prove the deer incident is a lie -- but it seems odd that, if Shelton had a TRUE STORY of a deer head, he would have thought he had to add LIES about his nickname and the reason for Allen's attendance at college.

But d*mnit, this is exactly what MC is talking about. I am SICK AND TIRED OF having to use my time and effort debunking this crap, just because Webb supporters refuse to use their brains and think for one second about what they are saying.

And I'm not enamored with the "Nazi cartoon" stuff either.

This is hardly a revelation that supporters and even campaigns dig up irrelevant dirt. Clinton had to put up with all of this garbage for years. I'm not a huge Clinton supporter but you got to respect that even with his womanizing known and condoned, he managed to get elected president twice.

Allen's history and reputation (whether accurate or not) was going to catch up with him at some point, and just from a campaign point of view, they should have been more prepared for this blogger-crap.

Just like Clinton's Lewinsky troubles, this is Allen's own fault.

Now, did anyone else see the Goldwatter doc?

Are you ready to join my boycott of NLS? He obviously is a hatemonger of the worse sort - almost the Julius Streicher of northern VA.

MC, you admit to using "the N word" yesterday. I don't get that. Who uses that word anymore, other than neanderthals and hip-hop thugs? Perhaps this is why you don't see why Allen's frequent usage of the term is disturbing to so many people and is likely going to cost him the election.

MC:

Would you like to join my George Allen Withdrawal Sweepstakes?

You got it, MC. But it is hard to try to stay above the fray.

Eric - yes, I saw the Goldwater documentary and wrote a post about it. Now, one would think that such a post might generate some conversation. As it stands, I got a single comment on that post. Heck, I got more comments than that on a post about the spelling of my name!

So when given a chance, the blogsphere would rather talk about racism and sexism. Guess that is what drives the blog hits.

As I've been saying for a while.. these folks see us as "the enemy", and will do pretty much anything to win. Unless we are as ruthless, we'll get beat. It sucks, but dirty politics works.

If I were Allen's mother, I would tell him to withdraw from the race. No one should be treated this way. His children shouldn't have to see their father treated this way. It's all making so sad. It's also making me rethink my love of politics. Right now, I hate it. I hate what the liberals are doing to Allen. They should be ashamed of themselves, but if they had any shame, they wouldn't have done all these reprehensible things.

You may be tired of it, but there is no one to blame but George Allen. He "made up" the word macaca and got all this rolling.

Now, if you beleive he just happened to make up the word macaca, that just happened to be a racial slut in North Africa, where his mother just happened to be from...

and if you beleive it he NEVER, NEVER used the N-word...you are delusional.

And explain to me why a national figure such as Professor Larry Sabato woudl make up a story such as he stated last night on HardBall? He wouldn't and you know it.

The frustration should be directed at the candidate, no one else.

"If blogging wasn't theraputic for me, I would quite now. I'm close. Very close."

Ohhhhh no! Say it ain't so! You could be discussing "real" issues but you continue to post on this topic. Why?

MC, you seem like an idealistic young man and I sympathize with your disillusionment. I was a lot like you at your age. I think most of us who do get involved in politics and blogging are still basically idealists who want to see the best things for our country, our state and our hometowns.

We may disagree on the best means to achieve goals like peace, security and prosperity but it's what we all want. And we also want candidates whose character we trust.

Despite the best intentions, though, politics is a full contact sport and it's not for the faint of heart.

Let me ask you this. Were you as heartsick and disgusted with dirty politics when people like Chris LaCivita and others besmirched John Kerry, a decorated war hero, and released a commercial that was full of verifiable lies about Kerry's record in 2004?

Were you mad at the way the media mis-characterized Al Gore and made the 2000 election about whether he was too stiff when dancing the macarena rather than about his position on issues?

And were you offended when Max Cleland, a war hero who had three limbs blown off in Vietnam, was juxaposed with a picture of bin Laden in a commercial by his Republican opponent in Georgia's senatorial race in 2002?

Or are you just so discouraged now because the tables are turned and it's your candidate who has to face the heat because of words and actions that he is ultimately responsible for?

Issues are important. But so is character. Republicans, at least, have always maintained that that's true. And it's fair to put George Allen's character: his honesty, whether or not he's a racist, his basic decency under the crucible of public scrutiny. This is especially true when so many of his campaigns have been about Virginia values.

How does he define Virginia values? It's a fair question that is being asked.

What he's going through is what both the media and Republicans have put countless Democrats through. No more and no less.

And his problems now are mostly self-created. It's no use blaming a liberal media or corrosive bloggers. Before there were bloggers there were radio talk show hosts like Rush Limbaugh and Laura Ingraham, book writers like Ann Coulter, and tv ads like the Swifboat commercials.

Lowell Feld and Ben Tribett and liberal bloggers hold no monopoly for hardball politics. Nor did they invent it. In fact, they didn't even perfect it.

If you should be mad at anybody, it's George Allen for making poor choices in his behavior. He's the only one who can be accountable for that. Republicans have long made character an issue when its to their advantage. The focus now on whether George Allen made racist remarks or whether he's ashamed of his Jewish heritage and even whether he's honest about all this is ultimately about character. His character. And it is fair.

If this were a Democrat, that's exactly what you would be telling us. And you'd be right too.

Never been here before....

I agree wholeheartedly. It is good to see someone else who's tired of all this....from both sides.

I was angered by the ads attacking Cleland. I was angered by the Swift Boat ads against Kerry. I was angered by the death penalty ads against Kaine. I was angered by the attacks on Webb about women and minorities. I was angered by the cartoon targeting Miller. I was angered by Allen's "m-word" comment. I was angered by Fox's question at the debate. I'm angry about the stories about Allen if true, and I'm angry about the people telling the stories if false.

Bravo, MC. Tell it like it is. Decency now, decency forever.

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